tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post9159310547306808464..comments2023-06-01T10:52:44.280-04:00Comments on The Gospel-Driven Church: Missional Priority: To Seek and Save the LostJaredhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07454966527986478217noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-28243672950766249212010-05-01T14:12:23.715-04:002010-05-01T14:12:23.715-04:00Sorry for the late weigh-in, but I wonder:
Do yo...Sorry for the late weigh-in, but I wonder: <br /><br />Do you think it would help to clear things up with the difficult dichotomies and tensions - gospel of repentance/gospel of kingdom, mission/justice, etc. - if we didn't just try to find where Jesus speaks like Paul, but rather to understand how Paul is (always) speaking like Jesus?<br /><br />What I mean is, Would it be solved if we understood Paul as speaking more of ecclessiology and kingdom than we ordinarily think he is?<br /><br />I know this has been the thrust of Tom Wright's work, but I wasn't sure if you'd factored that in, especially as you're writing your book.zach hoaghttp://thenuance.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-78465711526432568682010-04-24T10:01:04.728-04:002010-04-24T10:01:04.728-04:00In the Anglican CHurch, there is a model called th...In the Anglican CHurch, there is a model called the five marks of Mission that is bieng used as a lens for evaluating and planning ministry. The discussion I have seen is usually adopting the latter three marks- good works, justice andn care for creation, over the first two marks- evangelism and discipleship. <br /><br />It's a pick and choose system of mission- to the detriment of church growth. <br /><br />I am so encouraged by this entry. Thank you for clarifying some of the discussion around the competing values of compassion and conversion...Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05638439016755784029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-743074948325110292010-04-22T00:47:06.036-04:002010-04-22T00:47:06.036-04:00Primary concern in the mission of God--loving Jesu...Primary concern in the mission of God--loving Jesus.Robertahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15874835897130067068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-9969084863788825142010-04-20T20:26:58.967-04:002010-04-20T20:26:58.967-04:00Hmmm, that's a good question Jared........I th...Hmmm, that's a good question Jared........I think the missionary sees their mission as the context for their evangelism (meeting the phyical needs opens the door for their proclamation). Angelina Jolie obviously doesn't have that motivation. <br /><br />However, I wouldn't (necessarily) dismiss her motivation as merely moralistic. That's where I don't think we can separate the secular and the sacred.....I think she might genuinely have a heart for the "least of these" and she has that because (maybe) she has tapped a little into the image bearer inside of her. <br /><br />Obviously, that doesn't save her (at all) but if she follows her heart to the source of that motivation (something she may not be able to do because of other truth's she has suppressed per Romans 1) it could lead her straight to Christ. <br /><br />I do think God honors the acts of the image bearer who is acting like an image bearer (and not just moralistically).<br /><br />I'm sure I've made that all as clear as mud.....it is just that I do have a problem with dismissing the Habitat for Humanity motivation as just moralism simply because their isn't an intent to do evangelism.....I think it's more nuanced than that.nhenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-46986845308449406732010-04-20T17:23:30.439-04:002010-04-20T17:23:30.439-04:00I agree.
They are both "good" acts - ...I agree. <br /><br />They are both "good" acts - as the world sees them. Which is saying that helping people out is better than not helping people out. <br /><br />The difference is the focus of, or reason for, or whatever the act itself.<br /><br />The boy who helps the old lady cross the street vs. the "Christian" boy who helps the old lady cross the street.<br /><br />One does it, maybe, to "be a good person" or to "help the old lady". The other does it to serve the King, or to help the "least of these."<br />The focus of "boy" is on the person, either way. The focus of "Christian boy" is on Jesus. Obedience to - and honoring Jesus is the point.Josh Cranstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09477471987308648701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-19989055374005084822010-04-20T15:16:30.264-04:002010-04-20T15:16:30.264-04:00I don't think he's separating secular and ...I don't think he's separating secular and sacred; I <i>think</i> he's separating moralism with kingdom work.<br /><br />In other words, he's saying there's something different between, for instance, what Angelina Jolie does in Uganda and what Blood Water Mission does, even though there is much overlap in the "behavior."<br /><br />Would you agree with that?Jaredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07454966527986478217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-88675446894364428892010-04-20T12:17:53.254-04:002010-04-20T12:17:53.254-04:00Fascinating stuff Jared......to answer the questio...Fascinating stuff Jared......to answer the question - I'm with you (and Keller) it's both and they're inseparable. <br /><br />I'm going to over-simplify, but I think Eph 2:8-10 is the whole picture - "saved by grace" (personal salvation v. 9) and "His masterpiece/workmanship" (kingdom v. 10)......we're God's "5th symphony" - when our tune is played throughout the world, people are saved AND the kingdom expands, and the landscape fills with more masterpieces.<br /><br />I also think that the bigger Biblical conundrum is between Matthew 25 (feeding His sheep) and Matthew 28 (making disciples)......For me, Matthew 25 is the context for Matthew 28 and Acts 1:8 for that matter. <br /><br />When we take our eyes off of ourselves and get out and mix it up with non-Christians (or better said - the "one" as opposed to the "99") we need to do it with the intent of relentlessly feeding His sheep........I'm rambling, but suffice it to say - kingdom building AND evangelism both happen when we relentlessly pursue "the least of these".<br /><br />As an aside, I think Dever misunderstands Keller. Keller's "redeem the culture" mantra is really better said as "bring the gospel to bear on the culture" - such that the "shalom peace of God" is a fragrant aroma of the knowledge of Him in every place - and then let God decide what he wants do to with it.<br /><br />Also is it me?, or does Dever seem to see a pretty clear separation between the sacred and the secular......maybe I'm inferring too much, but I'm not down with that.nhenoreply@blogger.com