tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post7270402204593068130..comments2023-06-01T10:52:44.280-04:00Comments on The Gospel-Driven Church: It is Easy to Do ThisJaredhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07454966527986478217noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-62984597871812492422010-08-03T10:39:42.210-04:002010-08-03T10:39:42.210-04:00We have just personally experienced this kind of l...We have just personally experienced this kind of legalism in our church, and it can be very hurtful and destructive, even when applied by "well-meaning, fuzzy" Christian brothers and sisters. Now we are caught between abjuring "roller coasters" (and whatever next things these legalists find to outlaw) for no good reason or offending our brothers and sisters in Christ. We could give up "roller coasters", but what's next, and where do we draw the line?Sherryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04664642293286996220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-9888131840557075832010-08-02T00:12:30.627-04:002010-08-02T00:12:30.627-04:00David, thanks for your comment.
When I refer to &...David, thanks for your comment.<br /><br />When I refer to "conscience," I typically use the phrase "Spirit-led" or "Spirit-formed" conscience. I certainly don't mean some internal, "natural" compass, still less Jiminy Cricket. I'm referring to the same conscience Paul does in 1 Corinthians 8 and 10, in the discussion related to Christian liberty.<br /><br />Also: One reason I have titled the post as I have is to indicate how easy it is for any of us to slip into this type of thinking. <br />In my neck of the woods, I encounter many non-arrogant legalists, by which I mean, well-meaning Christians who are not pharisaical or rude or hypocritical, really, but fuzzy on the gospel, assuming that outward adherence to standards the Bible does <i>not</i> command are the indications of holiness for themselves and others. Paul was very emphatic on the utter deficiency of that kind of thinking (in Galatians, for instance).Jaredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07454966527986478217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-80390755806964234712010-08-01T23:59:22.309-04:002010-08-01T23:59:22.309-04:00"I don't see how anyone who call themselv..."I don't see how anyone who call themselves a Christian could... consistently be indifferent to Jesus Christ and refuse to follow Him as their Lord and Savior."<br /><br />I hope that is not considered legalism but truth from His Word.<br /><br />I get what you are saying and totally agree that there are little corners people try to paint others into but it is not conscience that is our guide like our own built-in Jimminy Cricket, it is His standards. It would seem we must make sure we understand the Reality of His standards.<br /><br />Good thing when we are pounding on legalists, we are not being a type of legalist!!! (sarcasm)<br /><br />I have really enjoyed the posts on your blog, Jared, and the commentators affirm much of what the Lord has shown me.<br /><br />I would gently send a loving warning from my own experience that the spiritual hypocrites we see around us are sometimes the easiest to not love. One day in 1984 I realized I had become what I hated most. He showed me that love leads to compassionate prayers.<br /><br />Blessings.<br /><br />DavidDavidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-3960461806220350422010-07-31T16:44:10.148-04:002010-07-31T16:44:10.148-04:00Amen. Roller-coasters are of the devil. Besides, t...Amen. Roller-coasters are of the devil. Besides, the safety calculations were done by structural engineers who spent the vast majority of their time at university drunk and naked. I wouldn't entrust my life to any of their contraptions.Mark Heathhttp://www.wordandspirit.co.uk/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-3219241901177553772010-07-31T09:33:00.560-04:002010-07-31T09:33:00.560-04:00@Phil. I agree! It's scary when people confus...@Phil. I agree! It's scary when people confuse personal preferences with biblical belief. It's not that hard to find an out of context verse to 'prove' your point. Yet I do the same things in my mind already forgetting that I have struggled with probably the same things. <br /><br />So thankful for grace.<br /><br />Great post Jared!Patrick Peringerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14770983502248487497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-33920120679502085602010-07-30T20:41:10.219-04:002010-07-30T20:41:10.219-04:00I didn't think that sounded like your usual wr...I didn't think that sounded like your usual writing. :) It's amazing how legalists can find proof texts to justify anything they come up with.Fred Shopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05993039629949819266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-552756780937759612010-07-30T20:03:43.093-04:002010-07-30T20:03:43.093-04:00The next step of course is the classic "I don...The next step of course is the classic "I don't know how anyone who calls themselves a Christian could... [fill in the blank]"<br /><br />I guess the brutal part is that, it's so easy to see it when other people do this, especially when it's something ridiculous like rollercoasters, but then I know for myself that there are certain things, certain people, that trigger my heart and I'm doing this exact thing in my mind. <br /><br />Praise God - Christ died for legalists too.Phil Cotnoirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09746624025694692189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-69313397068952402332010-07-30T18:51:12.827-04:002010-07-30T18:51:12.827-04:00This made me smile. :)This made me smile. :)Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11061304417023335698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-27386197542261997822010-07-30T17:48:08.146-04:002010-07-30T17:48:08.146-04:00Jared: My post was: a Missuse of the preaching min...Jared: My post was: a Missuse of the preaching ministry = LegalismUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04825193667710797587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-87348234732480349042010-07-30T14:52:19.699-04:002010-07-30T14:52:19.699-04:00Jared - I knew as soon as you said "Jesus did...Jared - I knew as soon as you said "Jesus didn't seek entertainment" that you were being sarcastic.......you see way too many movies to play that card! :)<br /><br />Also - I really like this actually, because I've often thought that Philippians 4:8 is the most misinterpreted and abused verse in scripture.nhenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-23956262511201381322010-07-30T12:11:30.037-04:002010-07-30T12:11:30.037-04:00Well put, Jared: Obey what the Spirit says to your...Well put, Jared: Obey what the Spirit says to your conscience without trying to bind the conscience of others, submitting ultimately to God's word.Pete Scribnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08565043023531614917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-67024311017149768522010-07-30T12:01:21.563-04:002010-07-30T12:01:21.563-04:00I used to hate roller coasters. I was full of fear...I used to hate roller coasters. I was full of fear. But, I found in my older years, no reason to fear. I have been through so much that it is just fun. <br />That is what happens when you experience truth, your outlook changes forever. Mine has. <br />I understood the legalism referrence and how easy it is to try and justify it. <br />I thought you were going to go down a James 1 referrence in the post about being tossed to and fro, but you missed that obvious one.Rob and Maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02219340752387357124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-72650174900852195632010-07-30T11:54:31.255-04:002010-07-30T11:54:31.255-04:00Pete, if you replaced the "you" with &qu...Pete, if you replaced the "you" with "I" and made it self-referential, I might would try to talk you out of thinking roller coasters were objectively wrong, but not for very long. (Mainly b/c I don't ride them myself; not b/c I think they're wrong, but because I know they're wrong <i>for me</i>. Because they scare the crud out of me.) I would commend you for applying the Word to your Spirit-led conscience.<br /><br />In other words, I would not want you to feel yoked by something that the Bible does not call a sin, but I would also not want you to violate your own conscience.<br /><br />If more Christians would obey what the Spirit says to their conscience without trying to bind the consciences of others to the same obedience, our churches would be so much more fruitful. (And of course we should all abstain from everything the Bible calls sin.)<br /><br />Good question.Jaredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07454966527986478217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-6552672509494734652010-07-30T11:40:20.022-04:002010-07-30T11:40:20.022-04:00I enjoyed your post and appreciate your cautions a...I enjoyed your post and appreciate your cautions against legalism.<br /><br />I'm curious what your thoughts would be though if we made a slight change to the original post. Let's suppose that instead of saying, "I don't think Christians should ride roller coasters...," I say, "I don't feel I should ride roller coasters..." for the identical reasons you mentioned. What would your thoughts be regarding such an attitude?<br /><br />To be clear, once more, this is not my attitude. I not only ride roller coasters, but have recently encouraged my children to do so as well! Thanks again for your wisdom and for your love of the gospel.Pete Scribnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08565043023531614917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-71545983133378844082010-07-30T10:32:37.981-04:002010-07-30T10:32:37.981-04:00Maybe you should have used a less subtle title, li...Maybe you should have used a less subtle title, like "Here's an Example of Legalism." I'm thankful I'm not like all of those people who didn't get it.<br /><br />Hey, look at that! Pride is an even easier trap than legalism.Richnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-21318048176903941562010-07-30T10:13:43.602-04:002010-07-30T10:13:43.602-04:00It wasn't deviant. Just didn't want anyone...It wasn't deviant. Just didn't want anyone to confuse two Jareds. :-)Jaredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07454966527986478217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-6237190653268003152010-07-30T10:08:23.600-04:002010-07-30T10:08:23.600-04:00LOL, should I post as fakejaredcwilson? I didn'...LOL, should I post as fakejaredcwilson? I didn't realize my post was so diviant that you needed to distance yourself from it. :PJaredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08822703072172045333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-54145661688042942932010-07-30T09:18:23.196-04:002010-07-30T09:18:23.196-04:00Just a note: The commenter Jared two comments up (...Just a note: The commenter Jared two comments up (8:34am) is not me. Just to avoid confusion.<br />---<br /><br />Jennet:<br />The post is sarcasm. I don't believe anything in it. The title means that it is easy to craft a rational justification for legalism. I am sorry for the confusion.<br /><br />Anonymous:<br />I'm sorry I don't understand your comment. Are you saying this post is a misuse of the preaching ministry? Or that legalism is?<br />I can't tell if you "get" what I was doing or not.Jaredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07454966527986478217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-3878159932741659692010-07-30T09:17:21.663-04:002010-07-30T09:17:21.663-04:00Brilliant post, Jared. You had me going in my Goog...Brilliant post, Jared. You had me going in my Google Reader, so I had to go to your site just to make sure I wasn't missing something. I was. Your comment. Thanks for consistently, courageously, and compellingly drawing our hearts and minds to the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ.Bob Kauflinhttp://www.worshipmatters.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-41662750155778683052010-07-30T08:46:33.277-04:002010-07-30T08:46:33.277-04:00a missuse of the preaching ministry? Right?a missuse of the preaching ministry? Right?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-33242152132437905582010-07-30T08:34:26.503-04:002010-07-30T08:34:26.503-04:00I believe God created rollercoasters to illustrate...I believe God created rollercoasters to illustrate a couple of verses. First, "I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world." - John 16:33. What better way to know trouble than on a rollercoaster? But if we fix our eyes on Jesus during the "tribulation" of the ride, we will have His peace.<br /><br />Second, "For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison," - 2 Cor 4:17. Most rollercoasters are short 2-3 minute rides but seem even shorter when riding. For fearful people, is there a moment more glorious than getting off the ride once it's over?<br /><br />So there you go, Biblical proof of God's creation and continued use of rollercoasters. Now go!Jaredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08822703072172045333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-44208073770509788772010-07-30T08:09:47.021-04:002010-07-30T08:09:47.021-04:00I'm glad I read your comment because I was thi...I'm glad I read your comment because I was thinking you went for a ride on the legalism...dare I say it...legalism rollercoaster.<br /><br />Oh the wonders of sarcasm and literary form!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09648159378532573705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-53126796793684014422010-07-30T02:59:53.297-04:002010-07-30T02:59:53.297-04:00AAAH! Heretic!
;)
Point well made...just a littl...AAAH! Heretic!<br /><br />;)<br /><br />Point well made...just a little "pastoral advice" and all of a sudden, you're going beyond what is written, and binding consciences where Scripture hasn't. And yeah, it's tragically easy to do...<br /><br />Good post, thanks!Doughttp://douglife1.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-7041752418205814452010-07-30T02:10:49.235-04:002010-07-30T02:10:49.235-04:00Jared,
I don't get it. I love roller coasters...Jared,<br /><br />I don't get it. I love roller coasters, but don't see them as fearful - just fun. Can you use a different illustration, or elaborate your opinion/thought a bit more? Maybe I'm lost because I don't get how the title fits in, are you saying it's easy to cultivate fear for fun? Not trying to flame, trying to understand. <br /><br />Peace,<br />JennetJennethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13240894438141555814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-53718384920789138042010-07-30T01:55:49.812-04:002010-07-30T01:55:49.812-04:00I literally laughed out loud! Awesome post.I literally laughed out loud! Awesome post.Jonathanhttp://religionsucketh.comnoreply@blogger.com