tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post3216845048384072056..comments2023-06-01T10:52:44.280-04:00Comments on The Gospel-Driven Church: There Will Be (Bad) BloodJaredhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07454966527986478217noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-7668920127077791952008-06-04T16:47:00.000-04:002008-06-04T16:47:00.000-04:00Ed is about Ed. How can I tell? Well, if he were a...Ed is about Ed. How can I tell? Well, if he were a real leader he would be all about developing others. He has these young pastors who need to spread their wings, but Ed keeps their wings clipped. you see, they need to be loyal to Ed.<BR/><BR/>So, the guys with any pioneering DNA eventually move on and Ed does not get it. He thinks they are disloyal to him - forget about being loyal to God and the kingdom. They hurt Ed and so, in his mind, they can't be right, because this is all about Ed. Just listen to that discourse. I never heard a thing about what Jesus wants.<BR/><BR/>He is just another wounded pastor who believes his own pub. It is distasteful and he should know better.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-89412953500272454582008-05-30T09:39:00.000-04:002008-05-30T09:39:00.000-04:00If Ed had limited his rant to those who join as a ...If Ed had limited his rant to those who join as a staff member with the intent of eventually taking people with them I wouldn't have a problem but he takes it further than that. He talks about "boutique" churches; I see that as a perfect description of Fellowship's video venues. Ed's comparisons to the corporate world are absolutely laughable. He obviously has never been part of the software/technical industry where splits are an almost daily happening.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-91886408678600616232008-05-28T13:07:00.000-04:002008-05-28T13:07:00.000-04:00OK, I didn't watch the video, but I'll comment on ...OK, I didn't watch the video, but I'll comment on the post.<BR/><BR/>It seems that if you look at those leaving as pirates, you're more concerned with your power and influence than the mission. I would think, if one of your pastors has an idea that he thinks will better serve the congregation, the community and further the gospel, you ought to be all ears. Even if it means he's going to split away and 'do his own thing'.<BR/><BR/>That's how it ought to work. The other pastors in your big church are in tune with the pulse of their individual groups. You want them to come tell you things the larger church can do to help them with their ministry. A sister congregation that better meets those needs shouldn't be off the table.<BR/><BR/>Of course, as has been said, if you make it all about your power, don't be surprised when they make a power grab of their own and take a chunk of your congregation in doing so.<BR/><BR/>Jared, it seems that the departure of Element from BCC is a good example. You felt that the folks in Element would be better served in a separate organization. You approached the BCC leadership and they agreed. (At least that's my understanding, correct me if I'm, wrong.) Element is thriving, BCC is fine and the gospel advances.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-7233560725839069662008-05-28T08:10:00.000-04:002008-05-28T08:10:00.000-04:00I don't think that I could add anything more to Bi...I don't think that I could add anything more to Bill's last line, so I'll repost it: <BR/><BR/>"Which speaks to one of my pet peeves - Pastors who have never worked a day in the corporate world acting like they understand the corporate world :-)"<BR/><BR/>Having read "Good to Great" doesn't make you qualified to speak about business.<BR/><BR/>I am really glad I wasn't the only one left with a bad taste in my mouth after watching this.<BR/><BR/>MicahAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-26481825277636361052008-05-27T21:36:00.000-04:002008-05-27T21:36:00.000-04:00Man it doesn’t get much more ridiculous than this....Man it doesn’t get much more ridiculous than this. In the beginning of the video I thought it had to be a joke, but no! Young most certainly sees church as a business; otherwise you would not come up with this crap. Instead you would realize that different church communities connect/reach different people and PRAISE GOD for it. BTW great reflections on the clip.brad briscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13260894325252150384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-408371488970446462008-05-27T17:21:00.000-04:002008-05-27T17:21:00.000-04:00His thing about "this couldn't happen in the corpo...His thing about "this couldn't happen in the corporate world" - proves that he doesn't know anything about the corporate world.<BR/><BR/>It happens all the time. Where I work, an executive left in 2006 and immediately a bunch of people began resigning to join her new company. And when she came to our company in the first place she brought a lot of people from her last company.<BR/><BR/>No one gets sued for that. That's silly. It happens all the time. People are free to quit a company and start a new company. Other people are free to later quit and go join them. <BR/><BR/>I'm not defending "church pirates", because I am sure there's some truth to what he's saying. But acting like they would "be in jail" if they did that in the business world (meaning, it's even worse than we think!!!) is untrue. Unless I'm missing something here.<BR/><BR/>Which speaks to one of my pet peeves - Pastors who have never worked a day in the corporate world acting like they understand the corporate world :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-43340706940452026662008-05-27T16:54:00.000-04:002008-05-27T16:54:00.000-04:00In the clip, Young appears to me to be overly fixa...In the clip, Young appears to me to be overly fixated on the "business" of doing church. He appears to be concerned about market share and money rather than the demonstration of the gospel and individual life-change. I agree that we are called to avoid dividing and creating conflict in the broader church. The purpose of the church is glorify God through relationships, worship, and teaching... none of which should be considered a "competition." The man with the biggest church or the biggest following DOES NOT win in heaven.<BR/><BR/>I personally subscribe to guidance from the Acts 29 leadership that I heard in a recent podcast where Driscoll, et al suggest than any church not investing fully in equipping their members and staff to start new churches are failing to create an environment which stretches and challenges the congregation to grow deeper in their dependence on Christ. As they step up to lead, this is where God grows these "pirates" as well as people around them... and hopefully into a position where they meet a few (or a lot of) people's needs in a way that grows Christ's church - either through evangelism or discipleship.Benjaminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15036523521592268953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-538825134834187144.post-58292479640503098132008-05-27T16:39:00.000-04:002008-05-27T16:39:00.000-04:00I think, Ed, the Creative Pastor, desperately need...I think, Ed, the Creative Pastor, desperately needs to get over himself. As you so rightly said, Jared, perhaps if he'd been busy planting sustainable churches - rather than satellite churches, this wouldn't be an issue. <BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, it would seem Ed's about the size of Ed's audience. The Gospel may well be secondary.Bill Kinnonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03112672149549278379noreply@blogger.com